Management Psychology – Interview Analysis
In this assignment, students are asked to analyse the content of an interview provided. Four interviews are provided with managers currently working in senior positions at multinational organisations. This interview will consist of three questions related to the topics covered in class and a question in which the manager is asked to identify a problem that they face in their current work that psychology could help with. Students are asked to relate the concepts discussed in class (and in any further research that they carry out) to the real-life experiences of managers. This should demonstrate a strong theoretical understanding of the concepts described, as well as a justification for why the concept relates to the content of the interview. Finally, students should outline any psychological methods available to address the problem presented to the managers.
Assignments can be structured as below:
Introduction (100 words)
Briefly outlines the content of the essay, and the aim of the assignment
Content Analysis (650 words)
Analyses the content of the interview, relating relevant theories to the way in which the manager describes their practice. Clear examples are given from the content, theories are well described demonstrating excellent technical understanding.
Problem Solution (650 words)
Sets out firstly the links between the problem the manager is facing and any relevant theoretical concepts, before making clear recommendations based on psychological theories and concepts that could help to solve the manager’s problem.
Conclusion (100 words)
Summarises the key points of the essay.
INTERVIEW:
Kate is a Leadership Program Manager at the Lufthansa Group. Kate manages a small, internationally based team of people responsible for delivering leadership development to the highest levels of leadership at Lufthansa (board level-2 levels below). she regularly has to manage and influence individuals at a much higher level of the hierarchy than herself, working across teams and departments, as well as co-ordinate and manage multiple external stakeholders.
In this interview, she discusses psychological safety, performance, and diversity of thought.
Here is the INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT:
hello thank you so much for
00:02
joining us today on this uh on
00:03
on this management psychology interview
00:05
really appreciate you taking the time
00:07
uh to come and speak to students like
00:08
this um so would you mind just starting
00:10
off by saying
00:11
a little bit about who you are and and
00:13
what you do
00:14
yes thank you i would like to thank
00:16
you as well because this is really
00:18
quite a great learning opportunity for
00:20
me as well and um
00:21
it’s really great pleasure to be here
00:23
and to talk to you and to talk to your
00:25
students so
00:26
yes , i’m working for
00:28
the lufthansa group and i’m working in
00:30
the hr
00:31
department which is called culture and
00:33
transformation
00:34
and my role is to do leadership
00:36
development so i’m a program manager
00:38
for leadership treks as we call it the
00:40
life cycle oriented
00:42
accompany of the leaders and um i do
00:45
skill building as well so this is my job
00:47
currently
00:48
and um yeah i’m happy to to be here and
00:51
and have this interview with you
00:53
fabulous thank you kate um so as as
00:55
you know we’ve prepared a couple of
00:57
questions on topics that the students
00:58
will be covering over the course of
01:00
their
01:00
their learning journey this this this
01:02
term um and
01:03
uh a few that really relate into the
01:05
work that you do at lufthansa group and
01:07
so the first thing i wanted to ask you
01:08
about was psychological safety
01:10
and so could you tell me a little bit
01:11
about what psychological safety looks
01:13
like in your organization
01:16
yes of course i think this is really a
01:18
great question because psychological
01:19
safety is a topic that is really
01:21
relevant for every company and
01:23
especially for leaders so to get started
01:26
i would like to mention as you know i
01:28
work in the airline industry and
01:30
especially our organization as we are
01:32
working in the private sector
01:34
was hit very hard by the corona crisis
01:36
and we went into this crisis mode right
01:39
at the beginning of the crisis and we
01:41
will probably be the last
01:42
to emerge from it so that means my daily
01:45
business even though i’m doing
01:47
development programs
01:48
is very much characterized by this
01:50
crisis situation
01:51
and just to let you know i will answer
01:52
my question also against this background
01:55
so for me psychological safety as i said
01:59
is a very wide field and there are
02:01
plenty of aspects to talk about
02:03
and to answer your question i would like
02:04
to focus um
02:06
on the relationship of psychological
02:08
safety and engagement because this is
02:10
what really
02:11
matters for me at the moment and um so
02:13
i’d like to share my experience on that
02:16
and um i think both crucial for
02:18
organizations and especially when going
02:20
through an unprecedented
02:22
change and crisis psychological safety
02:25
is really really relevant so
02:27
to dive in the management practice i
02:28
would like to split up your question if
02:30
okay
02:31
it makes it much easier for me to answer
02:33
sub questions so the first one is
02:35
what can leaders do to create a
02:37
psychologically safe workplace
02:39
and the second one is what kind of
02:41
behaviors
02:42
are exhibited or can be observed
02:46
in our organization that suggests the
02:49
presence
02:50
of psychological safety because you to
02:52
be honest you don’t know
02:53
really if it’s there you just can yeah
02:57
orientate yourself um to the behavior
03:00
or the reaction or the the things that i
03:03
exhibited in the organization
03:05
so when organizations go through a
03:07
crisis like we have at the moment
03:09
and there’s a lot of uncertainty and
03:11
really major change
03:14
time is a very scarce resource for
03:16
leaders
03:17
and they have so many things on their
03:19
agenda every day to counteract the daily
03:21
challenges that of course
03:23
what we are observing in the practice at
03:25
the moment is
03:26
a backsliding into exclusively
03:29
transactional leadership styles
03:31
and this is of course very human and
03:34
very natural because
03:35
our leaders try to really regain some
03:38
form of control
03:39
in this really big change situation and
03:43
however to overcome the crisis like the
03:45
current one it needs
03:47
really transformational leadership and
03:50
um key to foster these crucial
03:54
things like psychological safety and
03:57
also
03:57
engagement in an organization are of
04:01
course
04:01
transformational leadership practices so
04:05
we started to to really to to support
04:08
our leaders we started an open
04:10
and an open dialogue with our leaders
04:12
and
04:13
i took the chance to send messages to
04:16
them hey
04:17
you have to spend time with your people
04:20
even if you don’t have the time so it’s
04:22
really important
04:23
to have real leadership in this crisis
04:25
situation and this is
04:27
really this takes time and they needed
04:29
to
04:30
really reach out to their people to
04:32
maintain the trustful relationships they
04:34
have
04:34
and to even to build them and to give
04:37
their people orientation
04:39
and energy whenever and wherever
04:41
possible
04:42
so it was really fantastic to see our
04:45
leaders that doing that first crucial
04:47
step to really reach out to their teams
04:49
even virtually and to spend time to
04:51
communicate about the current situation
04:54
even if this has been a challenge to
04:56
give transparency because
04:58
no one really know knew what will happen
05:00
and this is also important to
05:02
communicate this
05:03
you know to have been really
05:06
communicating even if there is no new
05:08
information to communicate so
05:10
they open the dialogue with their people
05:12
to learn about
05:14
the emotional state about the fears the
05:16
expectations and hopes of every team
05:18
member
05:19
key in this regard is really time be a
05:22
good listener
05:23
ask questions be approachable and even
05:25
more important
05:26
show empathy so this was the next step
05:30
to reach first to reach out and then to
05:32
really share their own thoughts their
05:35
own
05:35
worries their own fears around the
05:37
crisis to really
05:38
role model the way how to get engaged
05:41
and how to get involved
05:43
and of course this process also started
05:46
with our top management
05:48
so they also took regularly time to
05:51
communicate
05:52
and to go into dialogue and to share
05:54
their own emotions about the current
05:56
situation
05:57
and also this involved their own
06:00
assessments around their own
06:03
yeah feelings and emotions as well as
06:06
possible misconceptions or mistakes or
06:09
wrong assumptions
06:10
they talked about that and this has been
06:13
essential to maintain and to regain the
06:15
trust
06:16
as a basis and essential factor in
06:18
achieving
06:19
psychological safety in our organization
06:22
and practice
06:23
and then the next step was really to
06:25
invite people to ask people to get
06:27
involved to share their thoughts
06:29
ideas hopes and fears as well
06:32
and this was really done on a personal
06:33
level on the one hand
06:35
even personally if possible or virtually
06:38
and of course
06:39
since we are a large organization we did
06:41
regularly
06:42
pulse checks with um with an online
06:45
platform but this was really essential
06:47
this process
06:48
really took time and a long breath
06:50
because it’s not done in one day
06:52
and it’s not an easy way because you get
06:55
all kinds of feedbacks and responses and
06:58
you have to deal with that
06:59
and you have to show that you really
07:01
have listened
07:02
and that you really have heard what
07:04
people are saying
07:06
and you really you really have to give
07:08
room for exchange
07:09
and dialogue so that people can join and
07:12
share
07:13
and we do this as well on an individual
07:16
level
07:16
in the teams and we initiated a platform
07:20
we use
07:20
yammer and we have a lot of communities
07:23
and key in this context
07:24
is that our leaders they’re really
07:26
they’re very active on these platforms
07:28
and they really ask people
07:30
for their opinions their their
07:32
conceptions and everything
07:34
and they role model the way in sharing
07:36
and this is
07:37
coming to the second questions what kind
07:40
of behavior is
07:41
exhibited and can be observed that
07:44
suggests the presence of psychological
07:46
safety in our organization and i think
07:48
my experience shows that in practice
07:51
it’s sharing sharing is the key word for
07:54
me
07:55
and it’s not a one-way street
07:58
psychological safety and practice it’s
07:59
not a one-way street
08:01
it’s a kind of you know iterative
08:02
iterative process
08:04
and it’s um it’s really it can be
08:07
observed that people share their
08:09
thoughts
08:09
and you suddenly have those really very
08:12
constructive dialogues and you really
08:14
have these constructive
08:16
talks with people and you hear positive
08:19
and of course critical people
08:20
feedback and you see you you see that
08:23
people they really show empathy they
08:24
care for each other
08:26
and they support each other they give
08:28
each other confidence
08:29
even if there’s really a new challenge
08:31
every single day
08:33
which was our experience in the last 12
08:35
months
08:36
so um the people the people really get
08:39
involved
08:40
we have for example a kind of initiative
08:42
it’s called stronger together
08:43
so it was done by the people themselves
08:46
and they really
08:47
um gave each other confidence and
08:50
engaged and they shared their learnings
08:52
they shared
08:53
even their their fears but coming out of
08:56
this situation they discussed new
08:58
approaches to solve problems and they
09:00
really
09:01
um shared also their advice even
09:04
if something didn’t work so this was
09:06
really quite fantastic
09:08
to observe and um what is also what what
09:11
is also
09:12
kind of signal for psychological safety
09:14
in our organization at the moment is
09:16
that really
09:16
people confidently speak up you really
09:19
observe people who go into dialogue
09:21
if there’s an issue to be solved and
09:23
very important
09:24
they do not get any negative
09:26
consequences for that even if they
09:28
say hey this might not be a good way of
09:31
doing it because my experience shows
09:34
and and this is kind of really quite
09:35
fantastic to observe that at the moment
09:37
even in this really massive crisis
09:40
situation
09:41
so to sum it up for me
09:45
psychological safety and practice it’s
09:47
very important for leaders to foster
09:49
that
09:50
of course and to say to foster a safe
09:53
working environment for
09:54
for the people in order to increase the
09:57
confidence and the engagement
09:59
because we need that to get out of this
10:01
crisis mode
10:03
but this will benefit everyone in the
10:05
end um
10:06
also the leaders themselves because it
10:08
was really fantastic to see and to hear
10:11
that really people from a lot of
10:14
departments they just
10:15
send an email to our ceo and say hey we
10:17
trust you and we we feel very confident
10:19
you will bring this company to
10:21
success back again so this is my
10:23
experience and
10:24
um yeah i’m happy to share a team with
10:26
you
10:27
absolutely thank you for that crown i
10:29
really like that i really like the links
10:30
you made there between um
10:32
firstly the the how you measure and how
10:34
you see the psychological safety i think
10:36
is a really excellent way of describing
10:38
that
10:38
and i love the way you talk about
10:40
empathy as well i thought that was
10:41
absolutely brilliant and
10:42
then going between leaders and and the
10:44
people and back as well
10:45
um so thank you for that karen much
10:46
appreciated and the second thing i
10:48
wanted to talk to you about today was
10:49
uh how important you think it is to have
10:52
a diverse range of thinkers and a
10:54
diverse range of styles to
10:56
to your team’s performance yeah it’s a
10:58
great question
10:59
so thank you for that and it was quite
11:01
great to reflect on that
11:03
so working in teams with diverse range
11:05
of thinkers is
11:06
of course important for the performance
11:08
of teams i mean it’s it’s really
11:10
especially in crisis situations in our
11:13
organization we have
11:14
increased the establishment of diverse
11:17
teams
11:18
in response to dealing with the current
11:20
crisis
11:21
we have established plenty of really
11:24
diverse teams working on a variety of
11:26
projects
11:27
to renew and to transform our
11:29
organization
11:30
and this is one of our answers to really
11:33
cope
11:33
with the crisis so i would like to give
11:36
you one example because i
11:38
am myself i’m working since last july
11:41
in a project team with a mandate to
11:44
create
11:44
people engagement initiatives to guide
11:46
the organization through this
11:48
massive period of changes and
11:51
our project team for example consists of
11:54
really
11:55
a really diverse range of thinkers some
11:58
of whom
11:58
had no previous experience with hr
12:01
topics at
12:02
all so this is really quite something
12:04
new so
12:05
the team is made up as follows so i i
12:08
just like to mention that because then
12:09
you see it’s really a diverse
12:11
range of people so there’s a pilot there
12:13
are two cabin crew leaders
12:15
there are two colleagues from ground
12:16
operations and there’s one colleague
12:18
only from really classical hr we have
12:21
four colleagues from culture and
12:23
transformation including one change
12:24
expert
12:25
and a project leader she’s from sales so
12:28
this is really diverse as you can see so
12:30
at the first glance
12:32
when we established that team and i i
12:35
entered into that process
12:37
i thought hey establishing such a
12:39
diverse team seems to be
12:40
quite complicated not easy to manage
12:44
and it is true looking at the practical
12:46
aspects it needs a high degree
12:49
of collaboration capabilities and
12:51
openness
12:52
and tolerance and respect for the
12:54
different views
12:55
and ways of working of course and
12:57
perspectives from all the team members
12:59
involved
12:59
and yes you have to get used to this and
13:03
it can be a challenge in certain
13:05
situations
13:06
however my experience i also would like
13:10
to share is that
13:11
the last 10 months have shown that the
13:14
advantages
13:15
far outweigh the challenges especially
13:18
in overcoming
13:19
this current really drastic situation
13:22
for us
13:22
to mention some advantages i have just
13:26
noted some of those so i would like to
13:28
share them with you
13:29
the project team itself for example
13:32
represents the organization’s various
13:34
employee groups
13:35
which makes our project team really fast
13:39
and more accurate when it comes to
13:41
determining the requirements
13:43
of any initiative so at first we didn’t
13:45
realize that but then suddenly we
13:47
thought hey
13:48
um there’s everyone here in the room so
13:51
we can decide
13:52
on any initiative quite fast and
13:55
really more accurate because we have a
13:57
pilot we can ask what do you think do
13:59
you think your colleagues will accept
14:01
that or the cabin crew leaders
14:03
what do you think how will be the
14:05
reaction in one of our largest
14:07
bodies of employees so this is really
14:10
a very fantastic experience and it makes
14:13
communication
14:14
and change interventions really easier
14:18
of course they are not easy but it makes
14:20
it really easier
14:21
then the team offers very different
14:24
perspectives and approaches to the daily
14:26
challenges
14:28
which lead to a more creative and
14:30
innovative
14:31
form of dealing with it and we have
14:34
really a
14:34
wide range of ideas you know to get one
14:37
really great ideas
14:39
you have to have 50 or 100 ideas to have
14:42
you know really one that is really yeah
14:45
wonderful
14:45
so this is if you have a diverse team
14:48
you have a
14:48
plan you have really a stock of ideas
14:51
and of course new solutions
14:53
and this is also quite a great advantage
14:55
of working in such a team
14:57
and apart from that we have a right
15:00
a wide range of different skills because
15:03
um
15:04
everyone comes from his you know kind of
15:06
subject matter expert
15:08
and world and we have different working
15:10
methodologies and
15:12
this leads of course to faster
15:16
and in my opinion also to better results
15:18
and it
15:19
offers learning opportunities for every
15:21
team member
15:22
i must be honest i’ve never learned so
15:24
much since
15:26
last in the last 10 months than in
15:29
the last five years you know this is
15:31
really is quite amazing
15:33
and um we have also a wide network into
15:37
the very different parts of our
15:38
organization which facilitates
15:40
communication and of course the speed of
15:43
implementation because
15:44
everyone has his own network or her own
15:47
network and we can use that it’s there
15:49
you don’t have to establish you don’t
15:51
have to ask and it’s really you you
15:53
really can
15:54
feel the speed how our project processes
15:57
and um i mean and there’s one
16:00
very crucial thing and i would like to
16:02
mention that as as last
16:04
advantage it’s if you talk about
16:06
resilience i mean diversity in teams
16:09
means also that
16:10
you have really 10 different characters
16:13
and and different ways of really dealing
16:17
with crisis situations on an individual
16:19
level so
16:20
that meant also in the last 10 months
16:22
which were emotionally quite challenging
16:25
for
16:26
each one of us so we could really give
16:29
us mutual support because
16:31
everyone reacted differently to the new
16:34
challenge that came the next
16:36
day and um and this is really quite
16:39
a great experience to have that you can
16:41
really give your mutual support and
16:43
confidence
16:44
and um i think we are really a team that
16:47
is more resilient in the face of
16:48
unforeseeable events
16:51
absolutely and it’s it’s so great it’s
16:53
so great to hear those actual tangible
16:55
benefits that you get from those from
16:56
those diverse thinkers because i think a
16:58
lot of the time we can
16:59
we can see we can see diversity as a
17:02
good thing
17:03
but to hear the actual impact on that
17:05
project team in
17:06
in in into intangible uh in a tangible
17:09
form is is fantastic
17:11
um okay so another question for you then
17:13
is is around um
17:14
a bit more focused on on your on your
17:16
work um
17:18
in there in the in leadership
17:19
development and it was around it was
17:21
around high performance so
17:22
how do you drive that high performance
17:25
through the leadership development work
17:26
that you do
17:28
yeah there’s a lot of as i said for
17:30
psychological safety there’s a lot of
17:31
different aspects
17:33
related to the topic of high performance
17:34
in leadership development of course you
17:36
know that
17:37
and i would like to answer the question
17:39
coming from the previous question on the
17:41
establishment of
17:42
diverse teams as one organizational
17:45
answer to dealing with the crisis
17:46
situation i would like to focus on three
17:48
aspects
17:50
when it comes to to driving high
17:52
performance through leadership
17:53
development and that are currently
17:56
very relevant for our organization are
17:59
three things
18:00
the ability to collaborate the capacity
18:03
to break up silo thinking
18:05
and the mindset and willingness to
18:08
embrace
18:09
diversity now that sounds quite easy but
18:12
when you come to really dive into
18:14
practice these are really
18:16
three major challenges and um
18:19
to make leadership development
18:20
initiative successful in this regard
18:23
it is crucial that the format itself
18:26
conveys
18:27
the required behavior and mindset to
18:30
develop those skills i mean the people
18:32
really have to
18:33
kind of experience those things in the
18:36
format
18:36
in the leadership development initiative
18:39
and independently of the topic
18:41
the intervention should work the talk
18:43
and that i mean that sounds
18:45
easy but what does that mean so it means
18:48
to really involve experiential learning
18:50
sessions
18:51
into our leadership development
18:53
initiatives that allow leaders to really
18:55
experience
18:57
how it feels how it really feels
19:00
to break up silos and what happens then
19:03
to yourself
19:05
to your emotional state and to your your
19:07
success in this
19:09
solving this little task in this
19:11
leadership development program
19:13
and how it feels to collaborate how
19:15
difficult it
19:18
is to convince your colleagues to to
19:20
collaborate
19:22
and and how to use diverse perspectives
19:25
because
19:25
it’s not free of conflict of course it’s
19:28
not an easy way
19:29
i mean it’s easy set but done is
19:32
quite differently so it’s it’s really
19:36
it’s really important to make them feel
19:38
that and at the same time
19:40
it’s also important that they get the
19:42
chance to
19:43
to reflect on in in experience how it
19:46
feels if you stay
19:48
in your individual silo and if you do
19:50
not collaborate or use your strengths
19:53
and they they experience that free from
19:56
judgment
19:56
you know there’s no one who is judging
19:58
them so they can really
20:00
yeah reflect on that and come to this
20:02
kind of you know
20:03
kind of yeah learning on their own this
20:07
is
20:08
really very important when it comes to
20:09
leadership development
20:11
and the next important step is of course
20:14
to give them the chance
20:15
to continuously reflect on their
20:17
learnings and
20:18
to give each other constructive feedback
20:20
and this is one really crucial part
20:22
that’s my experience from the last year
20:24
shows of course coaching is
20:25
a very you know great tool when it comes
20:28
to supporting leaders in their
20:30
development
20:31
however there’s nothing better than
20:34
leaders giving each other feedback and
20:37
really coaching themselves
20:39
and really yeah sharing their
20:42
observations
20:43
hey i experienced you in this situation
20:46
like that or like that and i think this
20:48
is
20:49
really valuable for them because it’s
20:51
their peer and it’s kind of really
20:53
kind of you know present giving the peer
20:56
to the peer and this is kind
20:57
really powerful so i think this is when
21:00
it comes to really
21:01
going to high performance and people not
21:03
just hearing this feedback but
21:05
really taking it and doing something
21:07
about and i think
21:08
peer group counseling is really a kind
21:11
of
21:12
key factor in this regard when it comes
21:14
to really driving performance
21:16
and this process of course
21:19
takes courage it takes courage from the
21:22
leaders
21:23
it takes confidence and of course the
21:26
ability to manage
21:27
also oneself emotionally as well as
21:30
physically because i mean you
21:32
you you get all kinds of feedbacks and i
21:35
mean
21:35
you have to do something about it and
21:37
this is really quite a challenge
21:39
therefore
21:40
development formats should provide
21:43
leaders with the support and space
21:45
to work on these issues it’s not about
21:48
having a kind of agenda that is
21:49
fully you know full with every
21:53
as every every hour a new topic this is
21:55
not
21:56
about leadership development it’s about
21:58
really giving them space
22:00
to work on these issues and practical
22:02
application
22:03
already in the development program is
22:06
crucial here
22:07
so therefore my experience shows that
22:09
future leadership
22:10
development formats and
22:13
will increasingly move towards
22:16
experimentation
22:17
and kind of you know working in lab
22:20
formats where they can really try things
22:22
out
22:23
so yeah and i think we we are going into
22:27
a kind of world where leaders choose
22:29
themselves the topics really in the
22:32
instant moment
22:33
in the format they choose the topic um
22:36
when they get this kind of you know
22:38
awareness okay
22:40
this is what i have to work on so i
22:42
would like to do it right now
22:43
and this is kind of you know change from
22:45
having a very fixed agenda
22:48
to really being more fluent and open in
22:51
in practice really really like what you
22:54
said there about the the experimental
22:56
approach i think it’s fantastic really
22:57
because
22:58
it takes the it takes the experiential
23:00
element of that leadership development
23:01
and and makes an experimental
23:03
approach leadership development which is
23:05
brilliant it’s something that i’m asking
23:06
the students to do as well so i’m sure
23:08
they’ll that’ll resonate with them as as
23:10
they do their experiments and their
23:11
leadership practice
23:12
so that’s brilliant thank you so much
23:14
kate there’s there’s one last question
23:15
i’ve got for you before you go
23:17
uh which is just around um
23:20
any problems that you face in in in your
23:22
working life and how
23:23
psychology can can help that so uh
23:25
you’ll find my final question for you
23:27
kate is what
23:28
problems do you face or what is an
23:30
example of a problem that you face in
23:32
your current practice
23:33
that psychology could help with yeah
23:36
i’ve thought about that and
23:37
of course there there are quite some
23:41
we could get help or we would need help
23:43
with but
23:44
to really make it quite you know focus
23:46
on one thing
23:47
is for our organization um
23:50
we are working in a kind of you know red
23:52
ocean where anything
23:54
can hit us very hard so we have learned
23:56
that really
23:57
really hard in the last 12 months so i
24:00
think what we really
24:01
could need help with is to really build
24:04
resilience you know
24:05
resilience is really the key word at the
24:07
moment so it’s it’s kind of you know on
24:09
an individual level
24:10
but also on an organizational level so
24:13
we started off with building the diverse
24:15
teams but i’m sure
24:17
there are quite more things and more
24:20
kind of you know
24:21
methodologies or research you know
24:24
results we could use really to to bring
24:27
our organization as well
24:29
on an organizational level to be more
24:32
resilient to be more resilient to all
24:34
those
24:35
things that could hit us in the future
24:37
as well as hard as
24:38
the corona crisis did so this is really
24:40
one thing that really
24:42
uh yeah that yeah that really drives me
24:45
at the moment
24:48
absolutely absolutely fantastic so
24:50
kate thank you so much again for
24:52
taking the time
24:53
it’s really much appreciated i wish you
24:55
all the best as well
24:56
goodbye thank you goodbye and has been a
24:58
real great pleasure thank
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